Minchiate summary of the episode:
President, and the massacres of the mafia?
Spatuzza: the last piece of a mosaic already begun
When Dell'Utri and Berlusconi met the head of Cosa Nostra
The converging interests of goodness and Berlusconi
Text:
Good morning everyone. In a couple of days is the anniversary of the massacre of Piazza Fontana (1969), we are at 40 years. The President has rightly said that Napolitano the massacre of Piazza Fontana gives us a lesson that we must never forget, teaches us to avoid the conflicts in Italy and the legitimate differences in opinion may lead to tensions that may threaten civil life and adds that there are still some dark spots on the massacre Piazza Fontana 40 years ago. It 'goes without saying, I think, that needs to explore and illuminate those dark spots that characterize almost every murder political / terrorist / political mafia, there are also more recent massacres which have not only are there many obscure points, but there is, these days and in recent months, the opportunity to enlighten them and they are the mafia massacres of 1992/1993.
President, and the massacres of the mafia?
I think it is fortunate that new people who were directly or indirectly, the protagonists of that season are telling: from junior to Ciancimino Spatuzza and instead, I think apart from Gianfranco Fini, it occurred to anyone to say that it is good and right, which is a time of great optimism that in which new items are added to partial stories, and in some cases, fuzzy on those massacres. I'd like - we hope - that the President would remember that a lot of new stuff is coming out on the massacres of 92 / 93 and that we must continue to investigate, trying to see if the stories of Ciancimino of Spatuzza and others are reliable or not but in any case we must be happy they open new insights into the wall of rubber, rubber curtain that surrounded those events. I think that instead of the political class is literally terrified by the emergence of new details that can help us make that leap, that is, to reach, finally, the names and faces of those principals to be masked and we all know that the judgments and say that there have not yet been identified, brought to justice and punished. Not only is there lack of interest, but there is even a convergent interest in these new voices are silenced and these new openings are stitched up hastily.
Those of you who heard last night talking to Giancarlo Caselli "Che tempo che fa" Fabio Fazio, has heard a thing, in theory, would be obvious, but in reality it's almost revolutionary, or that if it is true that we must look for the evidence to the words of the repentant Spatuzza, one can not assume at the outset that Spatuzza mint must be secular, or non-biased one way or another. I would add, that I will not judge and therefore are not held to the rightful prudence of a magistrate, which is much more likely to Spatuzza tell the truth, rather than to lie: why? I'll try to explain it today, because while Spatuzza has already been trusted by the magistrates of Caltanissetta, who took the decision to revise the trial for the massacre of Via D'Amelio. Look at that, when reviewing a process that has already arrived at a final ruling, res judicata, ie where it is challenging a ruling by the Supreme Court well, meaning that the evidence available is impressive, because otherwise a magistrate not to renege what he has done his office, I do not call into question, you know, for the massacre of Via D'Amelio, were convicted of direct boss as instigators and perpetrators as killers, who, at least not all, would be guilty even if they have been sentenced to several life sentences for the murder, why? Why Spatuzza said "those things I've done and I have not made other mafiosi that if they repented accolades, starting with Scarantino, Scandura and others, so the problem here is twofold: to understand who those two repentant cue to force them to take the blame even of a massacre like the one of Via D'Amelio, who was not theirs, there is always said that attempts to download other sorry, but we are talking about autocalunnia, there are people who are accused of murder who have not made a Indeed, those who have cues, who has forced them? I imagine that only a dramatic constriction can convince someone who did the massacre Borsellino to say "yes, Borsellino and five bodyguards I killed them I "and this is the first point. The second point is that Spatuzza says "this assassination, and then I made it, in addition to having a child dissolved in acid and he made another thirty or forty killings, well I did the massacre of Via D'Amelio" and, according to prosecutors of Caltanissetta, and consequently the sentence is true, in which there is Spatuzza condemned as among the perpetrators, but there are others, should be reviewed, redoing the process with a review mechanism, to Spatuzza order and exonerate those who have nothing to do. Please understand that this is a powerful argument in favor of the credibility of what he says Spatuzza because it is not only a orecchiante telling things he heard about others, such as Berlusconi, Dell'Utri etc. but is one that while you say "I made it the massacre" part and there, not part Berlusconi or Dell'Utri, part of himself and this is on himself, on these charges is in itself while being judged his credibility, which is certainly not been found that lightly because, as I said before autosmentirsi the judiciary think twice, it must have elements of new and really strong. Of course it may be that Spatuzza telling the truth when he accuses himself of the massacre in Via D'Amelio and instead of mint when you say certain things about Berlusconi and Dell'Utri: because it is more likely to tell the truth about Berlusconi and Dell'Utri, rather than to lie about them? For the simple reason that is not the first mafioso Spatuzza sorry to speak of the relationship between the Mafia, Berlusconi and Dell'Utri, there are dozens who have already spoken over the years, immediately after the murders jumped out of the mafia who spoke relations with Berlusconi and Dell'Utri, which lasted right up to the day of slaughter. The first was Salvatore Cancemi, who was not a Spatuzza any, was not a killer, was a member of the dome, was one of the leaders of Cosa Nostra and Riina said that he spoke of coverage important people for the massacres and that those people were important Dell'Utri and Berlusconi, and for that reason, along with many other collaborators of justice told thirty years of relations between the Berlusconi group / Dell'Utri and the Mafia, were opened investigation for complicity in the massacre, were opened to investigate the mafia, for that money then ended up not because it was stored all found evidence that was not true, but because they did not find enough evidence that was true, not everything they say sorry i can be found, since it's been years compared to the facts that tell, but it is not that if something is not found then it is false, one thing can be true but not be found, and then the judge can use in the process, or a thing can be true and found, but not enough to bring to trial a person on the basis of these accusations which are thought to be too brittle. Archiving means just that and the judges wrote: "We have more time to investigate, because the time limits of the preliminary investigation. Arriving at the end of this survey do not have enough evidence to bring these men to trial, "but as the prosecutor of Florence wrote that incriminating evidence during the investigation had expanded their plausibility, that was very plausible that these accusations were true, we are talking about massacres of 1993, Milan, Rome and Florence, but still not sufficient to justify a trial, storage means "put in the freezer and see if, in the meantime, there's new evidence, reopen the investigation" and that's what probably done or are doing to the magistrates of Florence and Milan, working on the massacres of 1993 and the magistrates of Caltanissetta, working on the massacres of 1992.
Spatuzza: the last piece of a mosaic already begun
Spatuzza is not an isolated case, not a bolt from the blue, says, "Oh God, there is a mobster who said that Berlusconi had Dell'Utri relations with Mafia killings during the world, who would have thought? "Absolutely not, Spatuzza francobollino is the latest in a mosaic of tiles already full filled, Dell'Utri was sentenced to nine years for complicity with the Mafia the Court of Palermo in 2004, when Spatuzza still did not speak: a clear sign that there was already a lot of stuff on Dell'Utri. Spatuzza provide other details handy, as Spatuzza was the right arm of gravity, which are the ones who physically handled the massacre in Via D'Amelio and massacres of 93 and, incidentally, gave up and moved to Palermo in plant stable in Milan, where they had the big investments and, when they read The New York Times or, sorry, Il Sole 24 Ore, to follow the stock exchange, were very careful upon the actions of the Berlusconi group. And okay, there's the famous story that is all to be found, which meets at the Bar of Spatuzza Doney Via Veneto where the grave at the end of 1993 beginning of 1994, they said "we are right", "were happy, "says Spatuzza," we got the country into the hands thanks to the Channel Five and our neighbor ", according Spatuzza, respectively Silvio Berlusconi e Marcello Dell'Utri. These are the things that must be found, along with a host of other details: details Spatuzza that does not skimp, you heard meticulous precision with which recounts how the explosive was made to detonate the car bomb that was at the Olympic Stadium in January 1994, when in fact the bomb did not work the first time and the second time was later annulled, coinciding with the arrival in the field of the knight.
The game that is making information, information, and we call that stuff you see on television networks in uniform, who read the vast majority of days, it is just that, is the vacuum effect: they never wanted to talk about the process Dell 'Utri, the sentence Dell'Utri is a mysterious object, no one knows except those who have read some Libo for Gomez and another made by me: I do not mean to brag, but it is simply a matter of record. I do not know what other books contain excerpts from the ruling Dell'Utri very broad, I do not remember, I do not think that the newspapers have given much attention, when they left the grounds in July 2005. Done on The Daily'll give an insert in the coming days with the extracts of the main ruling Dell'Utri: a law and says "hell, but there is much more than what he says Spatuzza." The judges of the Court of Palermo have written things infinitely heavier than those who said the repentant Spatuzza, only that did not echo: why did not echo? Why an account is something written by a Court, so when the law says a "well, hell, this ruling is not final, but meanwhile have written three judges of the Court of Palermo, one of which is Guarnotta Leonardo, President the college, which was the right arm of Falcone and Borsellino in the pool of education in Palermo, we're not talking about a huge red gown or a makeshift court, we are talking about the pool Falcone, one of the few survivors of the pool of Chinn and then Caponnetto. If a law the effect is dramatic, the judges of the Court of Palermo write that Dell'Utri is organically incorporated into a mob of thirty years, but if one reads Spatuzza goes well, you can always tell him "yes, but this was dissolved in acid children, has made .. We can not trust him when he speaks of Berlusconi and Dell'Utri, "instead we should trust him when he says that he did the killing, because no one could ever theorize" okay, there are some with life sentences who the massacre had nothing to do, were sentenced for that murder, are in jail for a murder they did not, but since have gone too many years left to lose, because otherwise Spatuzza then right, and where we are right about one thing , it becomes harder to give it to him the other also " this is a guarantor? Keeping people in jail to life imprisonment who did the killing and who have been convicted for murder and not a mistake to reopen the process, only because if you take the blame Spatuzza? We can cut the half-repentant, as he did Silvan with women? The repentant cut in half: from the waist down is fine, the waist is not good? That 's what you want?! If you read the newspapers, that's exactly what you want: no one doubts Spatuzza when told by the thread and mark the history of the car, engine block dell'autobomba Via D'Amelio, that no one has ever discussion, no one asks for feedback on that, exceedances etc., the rest are asking not only evidence, that would be ok, but it says "bullshit" is the title the other day and Felt Belpietro Il Giornale and free, the house organ, and is the same word used by Dell'Utri, bullshit. Spatuzza It is said that when he speaks of the massacre, speaks of something he has done and then we can trust, when he speaks instead of the meeting of the bar, if it was that there was a meeting of the bar, however, he refers one thing that they told him the grave. Apart from that it is quite likely that the killer beloved by serious talk with gravity, which were at that time, including Rome, Milan, Venice and the Costa Smeralda, Porto Rotondo randomly, but the hearsay evidence would create a problem, says, "they told him those there" and then we look at the sentence Dell'Utri if there is a mobster who says one thing he has seen and he did with his eyes. Yes, there are several: besides the fact that in the process Dell'Utri, it has not been convicted of the word repent, you may also repent and take to delete them from that trial and the sentence stand up the same, because is based partly on objective factors, such as ledger found in the hideout of the family of San Lorenzo in Palermo, the Mafia family of San Lorenzo, with a figure and written by "Channel Five ", a payment that was Fininvest for the antennas of Channel Five in the district of San Lorenzo to the Mafia, they found the agendas Dell'Utri, which included meetings with Mangano in Milan after the killing, when he was head of the Mangano family Porta Nuova, which we now know to be the ally Spatuzza favorite bodies, they were doing the negotiations. There are wiretaps Guttadauro the boss, who speaks of the agreement made by Dell'Utri with a boss named Gioacchino Capizzi, talking about wiretaps recorded, but you will find that everything in the ruling published on The Daily Done, tapping in a driving school with Provenzano's men in a car dell'autoscuola, speaking for the European elections of 1999 and say "we must support Dell'Utri, otherwise the judges will give a damn, that is, we must send to the European Parliament, otherwise stop."
When Berlusconi and Dell'Utri met the head of Cosa Nostra
We
objective factors that have nothing to do with the word of regret that comes and goes, but since the episode tells us how it started This thirty-year long history of relations with the Mafia, it is interesting to hear him tell by the individual, the eyewitness, from those involved in the incident, because we are around 1974, when Vittorio Mangano was hired as a factor, administrator above, it is said in those parts of the villa in Arcore, taken in Sicily and brought to Milan Dell'Utri, reported by Gaetano China, which is considered a mafia family and that is the Malaspina , incidentally, one of the best friends and Dell'Utri, before you eat is taken by Berlusconi at his villa, there is a meeting at Foro Bonaparte in the offices of Edilnord Berlusconi, among the leaders of Fininvest, and dell'Edilnord leaders of the Mafia, which were then Stephen Bonta and Mimmo Teresi and there was also Francesco Di Carlo. This meeting is not as an idle tale, is a gathering that Di Carlo take part, he tells with vivid details and very precise and the judges of the Court of Palermo we believe that this meeting was and that's where everything starts. This small piece of the sentence would be good to know and keep in mind these days, when we hear "uh, uh, let alone Spatuzza!", If one puts together the story as it began and the story of Spatuzza, which tells us how over, if it is over, perhaps because it is not over, you know the terror that reigns in Rome and that they should repent Arcore Graviano brothers, who are the ones who have done the killing, but also those who are in prison in 2004 tell Spatuzza "here or give us something - that is, we relieve a little 'this prison regime - or else you should go talk to the judges of these gentlemen who have made commitments and have not maintained ", the climate is the same one that preceded the murder of Salvo Lima, in what First Republic and the promises made at a certain point, it is no longer able to maintain them. Spatuzza began to speak, not the serious, but there are fears that this is a no not yet and then it is interesting to see how it started and we are fortunate to have an eyewitness to how it started, already found by the Court of Palermo: Francesco Di Carlo, the boss of both worlds, the head of the mafia of Alton, that was one of the other accused - then the process for the time did not lead to convictions - to have even Roberto Calvi hanging under the bridge of the Friars Blacks. They say that the judges in the early 70s - sentence Dell'Utri December 2004 - the Mafia had landed in Milan, organizing - they write - "several kidnappings for ransom, in respect of which it must be uniquely understand the function of collateral and protection that Mangano was invited to play in protecting the safety of his employer and his closest relatives. " Berlusconi is afraid of kidnapping, instead of turning to the Carabinieri is directly addressed to those who made them seizures, or the Mafia away in Milan. "Gaetano China, said Tanino, held between the Mafia in Palermo and Milan - write the judges - an intermediary role, as demonstrated in a pivotal episode: Berlusconi's meeting with Stephen goodness, "not the alleged meeting: the Palermo judges ruling at Dell ' Utri write "Berlusconi's meeting with Stephen goodness, supreme head of the Mafia in that period, until 1980/81, when then there was the war to exterminate the people of Corleone mafia men of goodness, Teresi, Inzerillo etc. ..
Berlusconi's meeting with Stephanie Bonte, organized just for the interposition of today accused China and Dell'Utri, on which said Francesco Di Carlo at the beginning of his work: Francesco Di Carlo in 1976 became head of the Mafia family in Alton, it remains until the end of the 70, then is refined, it is given into hiding and, in 1985, he was arrested in England for a large international drug trafficking and was sentenced 25 years after the English courts. In 1996, thirteen years ago, began working with the judiciary. "Di Carlo - write the judges - said the good relations of friendship with China maintained over time. Through China had got to know Dell'Utri, which is presented by the friendly China in the early 70's, a bar next to the shop run by the same China, "which in Palermo had a laundry and a sporting goods store Via Archimede. "Soon after its introduction in Dell'Utri, the cooperative Di Carlo had a meeting in Palermo on China, while these - China - was in the company of Stephen Bonta and Mimmo Teresi, the number one and number two of the Mafia. Having to go to Milan all subsequent days, they proposed to meet in the Lombard city and gave an appointment in the offices that Hugh Hammond - who was a man of the clans who lived in Milan - was in Via Larga, near the cathedral of Milan. After lunch at the restaurant near the Duomo di Milano - then leave the Mafia, they go to Milan - Di Carlo was proposed to accompany them to a meeting that would have been a little later with an industrialist, that Silvio Berlusconi and Dell'Utri and the meeting here. Dell'Utri received them in this office - Edilnord, Foro Bonaparte, and led them in a room where they waited the arrival of Berlusconi, who then began talking about building, "I do not know if there is clear, Stephanie Bonte, Mimmo Teresi and Francesco Di Carlo, the heads of the Mafia, are at Foro Bonaparte, home dell'Edilnord, they are greeted by Marcello Dell'Utri and, at some point, Silvio Berlusconi arrives and takes the summit between the leaders of the mafia and Edilnord leaders, one of which today is our Chairman of the Board and the other is an elected official of the Italian Republic.
Di Carlo says, recalling the encounter perfectly - You will see the details - "it was just to meet us and greeted us Dell'Utri: a handshake, with Tannin China has kissed, he kissed the other, with me not", he knew the other, Di Carlo knew him not, the kiss is the greeting that passed between friends of the mafia or mobsters. Imagine if today Spatuzza Dell'Utri said he saw kissing some mafia "scandal, horror," would say "ah, ah, start again with a kiss." Well, here is already a meeting in 74, with kisses and ribaci, found by the judges of the Court of Palermo; "with Grade-Level there was Nino, another mobster who worked in Milan and was just a great meeting, a summit-you knew, had beaten a joke, he kissed (Dell'Utri) with Stefano goodness, head of the mafia. After a quarter of an hour has dawned on this guy 30 years old and broken and presented Dr. Berlusconi at all, "comes a young Berlusconi," certainly was not to now no hair, her hair was a light brown a crew neck sweater, a shirt underneath, jeans trousers, sport was still, "said Di Carlo," so much so that at the end Cinà said "they did an hour this morning as women to wear makeup, to painting and goodness seemed Teresi .. who had to meet? And that is came in jeans and a sweater, "they had gotten all dressed up and coming wedding Berlusconi sports. "They offered us coffee - Di Carlo is always telling - and, when Berlusconi arrives, they begin to talk about more serious things: work, work that everyone did, Teresi was doing two buildings in Palermo," her doctor is doing an entire city, Milan 2 "and he" is not much difference between an administration to organize, maintain curarne two or twenty ", Berlusconi has made ten or twenty minutes of talking, gave us a lesson in economic and management - the usual Pippon attacking Berlusconi in these cases - because he had built a city 2, as called Milano 2. The judges continued: "The meeting was also addressed during the discussion of Security", that is, Mangano became possible guarantee against Berlusconi mafia activities against him, "and in return we must also see what provides the Cavalier - in exchange guarantee of that - goodness reassured his interlocutor (Berlusconi), making the presence at her side, and ensuring the next Dell'Utri send someone, "here there is still this Mangano, have not yet designated as collateral in the Mangano Berlusconi's house on behalf of the Mafia. Still tells Di Carlo: "Milan happening a lot of kidnappings because, when there was outside Liggio (Liggio Luciano), that he intended to take all the money in the north in Corleone, fat entrepreneurs seizing, taking and bringing down their ransom money. Berlusconi was right to be worried that he had talked of children, family members, he was not comfortable and wanted a guarantee. Berlusconi told Stefano (BoNT), "Marcello told me that she can guarantee me that and more" (Marcello Dell'Utri) Stefano goodness and then said "you can feel comfortable, if I say I can feel comfortable to sleep quiet "-" yeah, I'm the head of the mafia "- you will people very close that whatever she asks, and she has made reassuring "you will have people very close that whatever you ask, and did.
"Then Marcello has a near here," she says Bonte, "Dell'Utri is here next to her, for whatever it is addressed to Marcello," "our Marcello and his at once, no? Therefore safer than this .. "" because Marc is very close to the rest of us, "says Stephen goodness to Silvio Berlusconi," we Cosa Nostra first threat and then we were going to make a guarantee, "said Di Carlo. The mafia is doing? Threatening you and then you say "I guarantee me against my own threats, "is the typical extortion. "It was a normal thing in Cosa Nostra, which otherwise has a need to ask - to ask for protection - if his safety is in doubt?". Therefore, the judges write, "there was a claim of the goodness and Berlusconi asks to be protected by goodness, but goodness I made a proposal to Berlusconi, confirming expectations that the head of the Cosa Nostra had in this first contact," had engaged a large building speculators in the north who was building an entire city due to Dell'Utri and China had put them in touch. Di Carlo says, in the interrogation process, "goodness there he said - Berlusconi - but why not build in Palermo, Sicily? "Berlusconi and what's your response? With a joke, a sly smile, "but how? I must be in Sicily? But how? Here with the southerners and Silicani I have problems here and I have to come there? "Goodness and Stefano told us," but she is the master when there are available for anything, "Berlusconi, he eventually told us which was available for anything, "it takes you I'll do me you need me, I'll give you," this is the relationship.
The converging interests of goodness and Berlusconi
Berlusconi eventually told us that it was available for anything too: it said to Marcello, had to ask what they asked for Marcello, Marcello ask him and he did. Goodness I had a very good impression and says, "Cosa Nostra we begin to enlarge it, one day we begin to combine - that is affiliated with the mafia - people outside Sicily, because there are many who argue better than the Sicilians," people do not even want to affiliate Sicilian mafia, the contacts are like this with this milanesino sports. What happens immediately after reconstruction by the Court and says that "the story of Di Carlo is sharp, precise and fully compatible with the rest of emergency proceedings, "then there are the findings.
"Once out of office, China had turned to Teresa and goodness, and referring to the person who could be sent to Arcore, gave the name of Vittorio Mangano, known by the same Di Carlo as a man of honor of the family Porta Nuova, in those years, combined with the mandate of Stephen goodness, "Mangano at that time was a man of goodness. "Di Carlo said that China, responding to your question .. says, Di Carlo, "I said (China) that was Vittorio Mangano, had put us close to Berlusconi, certainly not as stable boy, do not offend Mr. Mangano, because Cosa Nostra does not clean the stables to anyone, does the groom to anyone, Cosa Nostra has enormous power and then they put there to live in Milan, trafficked in the same time and was the figure that Berlusconi had someone close to the Costa Nostra, Stefano ' was near. Berlusconi had close and Stefano Mangano had close Berlusconi. " Di Carlo said that later, in relation to this meeting in Milan, China had expressed its embarrassment, because he was told to ask Berlusconi to 100 million. Around 77 / 78 - we're talking about a period where they eat is no longer in Arcore, Mangano is Arcore 74 to 76, then goes to live in a hotel in Milan - China had asked it interest (to eat), as Dell'Utri had again turned to him for the problem with the installation of antennas for the television broadcasting, "Italy were filling antenna for Channel Five. "Even then the money paid to the Cosa Nostra had a guarantee". Di Carlo
Now that is telling the truth about the encounter between Milan and Berlusconi goodness for the courts is shown by the statements of other collaborators: Anthony Galliano said that China told him everything, from the meeting between Berlusconi and Milan's goodness to direct payment sums of money in favor of the Cosa Nostra, or Berlusconi's Fininvest, or someone of his own, paying regular sums of Cosa Nostra and in fact, as I said, in a ledger found at the site of the clan of San Lorenzo in Palermo are written by a figure with "Channel Five, gift, then the lace was not asked by Cosa Nostra, was a gift that Fininvest was the mafia gang of San Lorenzo, where there were some repeaters.
"Salvatore Cucuzza - another sorry - said in confidence by Mangano quite similar, even on regular sums of money equal to 50 million pounds per year, payable to the Costa Nostra by Berlusconi and initially withdrawn from Mangano, of which they speak Francis also Scrima and Francesco La Marca, two repentant, in order to complaints of Mangano for not following the perception of these sums, sometimes they forgot to pay. And then there's financier Rapisarda said that as goodness of gangs laundered money in businesses, construction sites and on television Berlusconi, but that's another chapter. Imagine if someone had ever told these things today, to hear Spatuzza, one might say "but it's cool water than it is!", But unfortunately no one has ever told these things, and when someone dared to tell her, it was thrown out by television, as happened in Luttazzi, as has happened with Biagi and Michele Santoro as it happened to. We have a long empty television Bulgarian by edict, which means that today is struggling to catch up, if someone wants to do - Thursday evening Annozero I think we will talk about these issues - and so, when the thread resumes Spatuzza in fact no one knows that thread and looks like a bolt from the blue, a fungus erupted suddenly say things absolutely incredible, but in reality if things started as I read, the things he says are widely Spatuzza credible, the Mafia needed someone to take the place of the First Republic, which was about the fruit.
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